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This was a bad piece of legislation no matter how you sliced it. On CNN, they argued that this "hurts the children" of illegal immigrants because the children had no choice. This is such a stupid agreement on the face of it. It is the partent's responsibly to protect their offspring. By bringing their children along illegally, they put them in jeopardy just as if a parent tried to evade police in a high speed car chase with a their child in the back seat. That parent would be quilty of child endangerment. Perhaps, the same should be true in illegal immigration.

The other thing is who is going to pay for the college education of these illegal children to obtain citizenship? And it is not their country since they are not here legally, regardless if they live here. I know when I was in the US Navy, Philippinos could become US citizens if they serve in the military. But the Philippnes was a US territory, Mexico is not.

The liberal's continued agrument of 'save the children" is bogus. Just as the race card, its an attempt to gain political points and sympathy from those who are gullible enough to fall for it.  

--Last edited by gnelson651 on 2007-10-25 23:21:31 --

I have a strong libertarian streak.  (Not the party, the philosophy)  Many libertarians are pro free immigration without limits.  I'm not.  Here's the reason.  I consider the US like a corporation.  All 200 million of us citizens are stock holders and each own exactly one share.  If we just let whoever into the US, then the value of our asset is diluted.  I consider diluting the value of my property roughly equivalent to theft.

Now, for some people, letting them in may actually increase the value of my asset if those individuals will produce more than they consume.  On that argument, in certain cases, we should allow limited immigration.  

I think it should be very limited though because it isn't just about $$$.  More people mean more crowding, more pollution, taxing natural resources.  So that also dilutes my property value.

I'm for enforcement to end illegal immigration.  Also guest worker visas where absolutely needed when there is no one local to take a job.  This is just like your company hiring a contractor to do some work and the leaving when the contract is over.  And, very very limited permanent immigration only for people that will clearly not take jobs from those already here and contribute more than they consume.  I think permanent immigration should be such that total population growth is almost nil.  Like 1% growth per year.  If we're breeding at greater than replacement rate then no immigration.  

--Last edited by kvk on 2007-10-26 09:21:09 --

I have to agree with you on the immigration issue.  However, what about circumstances that there are jobs that only the illegal immigrants will do.

One thing I'd be more inclined to pass is if you are going to work here, you have to have a "working" knowledge of English.

Quote :

GeoMandoAlex wrote : I have to agree with you on the immigration issue.  However, what about circumstances that there are jobs that only the illegal immigrants will do.

....for alot less pay.

Just completed your sentence because I can't think of any job only an immigrant can do that a legal US resident can't do. This is a bogus reason. But the real problem is not immigrants but illegal immigrants. Most of the jobs that lack a pool of potential employees are high paying, high education requirements, not Juan working in the fields as a day laborer.

The other problem of illegal immigrants is that they will work for less and get paid cash under the table, meaning they do not pay taxes. If they do have a social security number, they got it through an identity thief.  And we are required to educated their children while they are here illegally putting a drain on those who do pay taxes.

Illegal immigrants are costing taxpayers jobs and money and it should be stop, not rewarded with amnesty.  

--Last edited by gnelson651 on 2007-10-28 10:14:52 --

Quote :

gnelson651 wrote :   ....for alot less pay. Just completed your sentence because I can't think of any job only an immigrant can do that a legal US resident can't do. This is a bogus reason. But the real problem is not immigrants but illegal immigrants. Most of the jobs that lack a pool of potential employees are high paying, high education requirements, not Juan working in the fields as a day laborer. The other problem of illegal immigrants is that they will work for less and get paid cash under the table, meaning they do not pay taxes. If they do have a social security number, they got it through an identity thief.  And we are required to educated their children while they are here illegally putting a drain on those who do pay taxes. Illegal immigrants are costing taxpayers jobs and money and it should be stop, not rewarded with amnesty.

I agree with kvk's immigration policies.  Limit the number of immigrants into the country based on what they can provide to make America a better country (even though we are the greatest country to live in right now, there is always room for improvement).  

Unfortunately, your scenario is true.  They do take jobs from Americans, for a lot less money.  I've also heard people say that they would not take a job doing what the illegals are doing anyways because it:
1)-does not pay enough
2)-welfare "pays" more (different topic, if you want to discuss this, we can start a new thread)
3)-the job is beneath them

This is where the "guest" worker option would work.  If you need 100 workers, and only have 60 workers in your location that are willing to do the job, where is the company going to get more?  You've tried to get as many in your locality to hire, but either through your locality's population numbers can't sustain your workforce load/need or there is just an unwillingness to work.  The remainder of the workers that fill the void need to be documented, legal immigrants.

We need to go after the businesses that are "hiring" the illegals with hefty fines that are made public.  This way, Americans know which companies we should give our money to.  Unfortunately, the businesses have congressmen in their pockets so this scenario is done and not going to happen.

What we need to do is to do more to keep them from crossing the border.  How, I really don't know.